ESL Jobs Forum

[JamesAtRealize]

[rs4lmno4]

I applied for sponsorship through Will Excel. I was accepted. The Handan Maple Leaf Language School in Herbei Province accepted me. But when the school presented my credentials to the authorities, I was rejected as being too old. They refused to give me a Z visa. They advertised as requiring someone aged 20-60. I am 60. Luckily Will Excel refunded the money. I was about to take a TESOL course with them in Harbin but I did not otherwise have the money $1500 to pay for course.
I also tried applying to Changsha International High School but the interviewer asked me my age and told me they could not get me a Z visa for someone as old as me. I never heard from them again.
I also applied to teach SAT for Asian Ivy Labs. I was scheduled for a trial teaching interview in New Haven, CT. The Hong Kong contact initially wanted an interview by watching me give a lesson for several hours. But the Hong Kong contact later decided not to even send me the material. I was not even given notice not to bother coming. The contact gave me an interview via Skype and realized my age.
These recruiters in China appear to only look at people on surface characteristics such as age rather than whether you are academically oriented and educated enough to read TESOL books. I did not trust any of these people. I took a TESOL course in NYC and got certified subsequent to rejection. I have also read several books on English Language Teaching, How to Teach Vocabulary, How to Teach Pronunciation, etc. I have put my search for TESOL job on hold for now.

[RoseV8]

Like all laws, the one regarding Z visas for those aged over 60 has numerous loopholes in it.If the school is desperate enough for a teacher, and a lot are, they will use one of them.

If you are still interested, keep trying but apply direct to the schools themselves.Too many agents are just plain crooks anyway.At one school where I worked they can not keep teachers and at times managed to get Z visas for "teachers" who would be unemployable elsewhere, they were so desperate. Of course, whether you would want to work for them is another matter but visas CAN be obtained if a school really wants to.

[gzq]

I am a 62 year old qualified teacher. The Chinese think that I am in my 40s or early 50s when they meet me.
I think the Oriental tends to be ready for retirement at age 50, so they expect foreigners to be the same.They can call me "yaya" until I start to play b'ball with them, then I am just another player.

[bonvivant]

Itｴs not the teachers that are boring; itｴs the books that the schools demand to be followed. I have been in schools that were teaching adults with a good grasp of English with materials that were meant for three year old's. Many times this stuff is lifted from other sources that have no relation to any subject that the students would ever be interested. If the school would be flexible and let the teachers devise their own materials, then the studentsｴ interests and needs could be integrated into the lessons. For instance, in China there is much interest in how to find a job because the Chinese are totally unaware of what that entails. However, the books given to be taught are repetitious and have no relationship to the needs of the students. Itｴs not popular culture that is needed in the teaching of English. What is needed, is information about a system that is foreign to them but that knowledge is necessary for their survival. They are not taking English just for the sake of knowing English. They are taking English so that they can manipulate it and make it obtain what the student wants and needs, and that usually is a job.

[RoseV8]

How very true.

I have been given books more than fifty years old salvaged from goodness knows where. Worse still, "books" made up of bits and pieces taken from the works of many authors that bear no relationship to the topic or level of the class. These, without exception, have the preface bearing the writer's qualifications altered to credit the school's owner ( who speaks almost no English and has no qualifications) with having written them.

I always prepare my own material but not everyone is willing to do this.Unfortunately, I have yet to meet anyone else who does. On occasion I have suggested resources to other teachers complaining about the books supplied only to be told, "I don't really want to work that hard."

.

[bonvivant]

Iｴm thinking that this age thing could backfire on employers and on youth benefits. When parents start getting a bit more sophisicated, theyｴre going to realize that listening to CDｴs and watching DVDｴs as some kid who talks about the latest adventure at the bars is not really worth the money that theyｴre paying. And when the older teachers get sick and tired of being a disposable commodity, youth-oriented organizations just may be hurting for funding far more than they are right now. Itｴs a very dangerous practice to discount whole sections of the population for any reason, and the practice eventually comes back to bite one. And please forget the volunteering gibberish. One gets what one pays for, and a free service amounts to very little qualitywise. Anyway, people canｴt feed themselves on free. Free is another word for worthless.

[boldadventurer]

I could have written that reply from playasgringo. I have virtually the exact problem.

I have MA in TESOL, a BA in English--years of teaching experience in US schools before 12 years in China, North Africa, Europe including the Balkans....Europe is 'closed' to me as an American non-EU citizen, the age limit is most places especially Saudi etc, China, and most Asian countries due to their extreme reliance on image...but then South America and Africa are mostly rural public schools and more often than not, volunteer jobs (maybe with stipend but you really must have outside funds).

Even Russia--I have offers frequently but they all pay virtually rent money and say "all our teachers live well because they take on private students which are plentiful." I do not want to move to a place where I don't know if I will REGULARLY be able to meet the bills!

I am highly qualified, even a time at Harvard teaching...and my age shuts me out often. Worse, the EU where I see good jobs...but can't work due to how difficult they make it for schools to hire outsiders.
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BoldAdventurer

[boldadventurer]

I see teffjones is an ESL learner. Or possibly should be since one of the 'rules' of writing (or speaking) is not to make too many mistakes and to make sense without the reader/listener having to 'interpret'---

And yes, there is age discrimination EVERYwhere, but in the US it is illegal--if you can do the job, it does not matter your gender, age, marital status, sexual orientation, etc.

And yes, in China especially, a retirement age of 55 is for exactly what you suggested--to provide an opportunity for all those zillions of young people to have a job without waiting for someone else to live to 70-80-or die before you get to have a chance to work.

One must also consider that many places do NOT think of "old" people as wise and experienced, but as old-fashioned, not so attractive, and without an understanding of young people--who are what the students usually are (from ages less than one (as I had some in China) to 50 who some of the managers, doctors, bankers, and diplomats that I taught).

It is a problem in the US even though illegal, because we have many truly qualified people vying for the same positions. Why would anyone, especially a university, etc., hire an older person who might only work for them a year or two when they can choose an equally qualified person at 30 or 40 who might be able to work for them for 20-30 years? The hiring process in a "real" educational institution is quite expensive and critical enough to have to select the 'correct' choice when a position is open.

This response was mostly to point out that everyone, including respondents to this blog site, need to continue to work on their own English--as my esteemed co-blogger teffjones, even though many of us slap-dash things on our cell phones, our emails, the blog things we respond to...and thus all are getting sloppy with our writing/spelling/grammar--a thing we all should try not to let happen in our use of the language.
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BoldAdventurer

[Chris Wu]

This post has been moderated UJ

There is no age discrimination in China!
People are treated equally here, despite the fact that many people would assume that older people tend to have more experience, or on the contrary, younger teacher s are preferable because they are more energetic. But as far as I know, for expats url removed there is no age discrimination. However, expats should be aware that there is still an age limit of 60.

[Liza]

Post deleted; repeated elsewhere UJ